Quote of the Day

Monday, August 16, 2010

Monticello College

Shanon Brooks is forging ahead with the Monticello campus alone: he has built a website touting the great Monticelo College:

http://www.monticellocollege.org/



ht: R.C.

25 comments:

Felidae said...

Alas, the orphaned TJED finally found its new institutional home. Anyone want to take bets on how long this lasts?

Anonymous said...

And what does this have to do with George Wythe University?

Anonymous said...

Just an interesting observation: I have noticed that there are fewer posts on your blog about the negativity of George Wythe University. Is this a good sign for the school? It seems as if they are cleaning things up quite a bit. Just curious.

Anonymous said...

While there have been some positive changes, there has been little else to report. How many advances has GWU made toward accreditation? Without accreditation they are finished. There are accredited schools that are in danger.

Annie Cronk said...

I really would like to go to this college. I am a junior in Webster Christian School in Webster, NY, and want to go to this school badly after listening to one of Dr. Brooks's talks about raising a new generation of leaders. :)

Anonymous said...

Annie,

The best advice you'll get from this "educational" blog is to just do what everyone else is doing and stay on the conveyor belt. The world doesn't need leaders or leadership schools and any that are found should be attacked and ostracized.

Use your basic common sense so you can end up like all the basic common people around you. Shanon Brooks is a dreaming idealist who is trying to make a difference in the world. None such are needed or wanted here.

The Real George Wythe said...

Annie,

If you choose to get involved with this school you will quickly learn that many TJEd adherents are (1) sarcastic, and (2) particularly fond of the straw-man fallacy. The 11/5 anon response is an example of this. It appears to be their method of avoiding the facts.

If you choose to part with your money and your youth for this Monticello College, more power to you. Just don't be surprised if history repeats itself yet again. There was the Meadeau View Institute, which was clouded in dubious claims and mismanagement. The players then moved on to found George Wythe College, also clouded in dubious claims and mismanagement. And now there is Monticello College.

"Ye shall know them by their fruits."

Best,

TRGW

Anonymous said...

Annie, some may say it is fool hardy to listen seriously to any of us straw men who slink in the shadows draped in anonymity. To my knowledge nothing negative has ever been said on this blog, or any other, about the Monticello College or the quality of the classical education you might find there. Believe me… that is really saying something, because if there was something negative, no matter how small, TRGW would root it out and loudly display it for the world to see. He doesn’t “avoid the facts” unless they happen to be of a positive or praiseworthy nature. Oh yeah, and any facts about his personal identity… he avoids those too.

On that note, the only rationalization I’ve heard here in defense of anonymity is that the founding fathers used it for a time, but that only lasted until their noble work was complete and then, putting their personal honor on the line, they put their names on the document.

You’ll find no such noble work here. What do you say, TRGW, do YOU have any worthy fruits we should know about?

Annie… Look to the mission. Is their mission to build or destroy? I think it is clear what the mission here is. Oh, and if your looking for sarcasm, you’ll find TRGW’s blog dripping in it. He would be dishonest if he didn’t concede that point. He believes we only have the right to be critical of the subjects of his posts, not the author of them. While he preaches that the credibility of one’s words is based primarily on the accreditation of their education, he quietly covers the big red “A” tattooed to his own chest.

I will say this about him though, he sometimes allows certain comments to pass his screening even when they don’t show him in the most favorable light. That could be so he can continue to bash other commenters without too much hypocrisy.

Bob said...

TRGW, what do you mean by “many TJED adherents?”

I think it’s painstakingly obvious that you don’t get many TJED adherents that comment here. Either you are so accurate that they have no basis for disagreement, or you are so completely off base that your little blog doesn’t even merit their attention.

Since you only have 3 official followers and maybe 5 regular contributors I tend to believe the latter.

Felidae said...

Annie, TRGW is actually being quite gentle. If after having spoken with Shanon Brooks you are interested in Monticello College, I suggest you call President Schulthies at GWU and compare the two for yourself. After that, I suggest expanding your research to compare St. John's College in Annapolis and a few other classical liberal arts schools. The classical method is nothing new, and it's value is not what is questioned. Wherever it is practiced over the globe -- and you can find variations of it in MANY places -- it all depends on who is hiring and training the faculty. Brooks has been notoriously shoddy at this. Be a choosy shopper, inform yourself and take your time.

The Real George Wythe said...

11/6 Anon said: "To my knowledge nothing negative has ever been said on this blog, or any other, about the Monticello College or the quality of the classical education you might find there."

That is because "Monticello College" doesn't exist at this point. But you're making me curious. I will continue to watch Brooks's activities. By the way I did notice he registered it as a for-profit corporation. Look up business entity 7715988-0142 at the Utah Division of Commerce.

Bob said: "I think it’s painstakingly obvious that you don’t get many TJED adherents that comment here. Either you are so accurate that they have no basis for disagreement, or you are so completely off base that your little blog doesn’t even merit their attention... I tend to believe the latter."

With 4,000+ visits in the last nine months, the blog has attracted modest attention. Bob, I invite you to point out even one fact I have misstated. Failing that, I'd have to say that it is the former, not the latter.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said: "Annie… Look to the mission. Is their mission to build or destroy? I think it is clear what the mission here is."

Annie,
Is that a wise investment decision? Your education is among the greatest investments that you will make. Mission statements are nice, but they are no guarantee that you won't be taken advantage of.

Bob said...

TRGW,

This whole blog is Theory and Conjecture. You take everything out of context then you blow it way out of proportion. You have no first hand experience, so you selectively take from what other people have said elsewhere and twist it to make what ever long shot point you are trying to make. You see conspiracy where none exists and you try to demonize good people who have done nothing wrong let alone anything wrong to you. Every time you mention a book, you later admit you haven’t read it. Your criticisms are all out dated, since none of the people on your vendetta list are even involved at the school anymore. Are you going to hunt Shanon down for the rest of his life and attempt to discredit everything he ever tries to accomplish for the good of our country? Are you going to rip apart Oliver’s new insightful and inspiring book? There’s a G W graduate who just won political office in California, are you going to begin an “investigation?”

Finally, where are all the students who have been wronged by this institution you are so passionately against? You mention your relative, but where is she? I’m starting to doubt even her negative feelings toward the school. One has to question your motives. An honest man wouldn’t be afraid to put his name on something he is so openly critical about. People stumble onto your blog because the masses are attracted to and entertained by negative information, whether true or not. The media and daily news proves that. I will also concede that the “google” force is strong with you. I think it’s clear though that you serve the dark side cause there’s no light to be found here. At least Anakin was once a jedi. You… you’re just some no-name bounty hunter with a grudge, out to destroy and discredit even the padawan Wythers.

To be honest, the only reason I waste my time commenting here is because you are actually hurting real people and I’m not talking about the people you are attacking. Your negative blog has real negative consequences for people who’s lives you don’t even realize you are negatively impacting. Personally, I don’t believe that is your intention, but as you are so fond of saying, The End doesn’t Justify the Means. You call yourself an active mormon, but frankly I’m not sure you could even be considered a half decent Christian. In the end, I’m afraid you’ll discover that you wasted your time and talents fighting the wrong side.

The Real George Wythe said...

Bob said: "This whole blog is Theory and Conjecture"

This blog is fact-based. Sadly, aside from the Times & Seasons article, this blog is the SOLE source on the internet for a factual history of George Wythe College. Not even the school, with the good strides it has taken, has published a fact-based history. (They haven't even repudiated their disturbing life experience degrees.)

"...you try to demonize good people who have done nothing wrong..."

Name one personal attack I have made on this blog.

"Are you going to hunt Shanon down for the rest of his life?"

Of course not. I was content to let Monticello College wither on the vine with no further attention until the above comments evangelizing for the school appeared.

"Are you going to rip apart Oliver’s new insightful and inspiring book?"

I wouldn't dare! But now that you mention it...

Remember, this blog is not about Oliver DeMille or Shanon Brooks. It is about George Wythe College, and to a much lesser extent, DeMille's Thomas Jefferson Education (the blog whyidontdotjed.blogspot.com is a much better resource for that). They're gone from the school, so I don't really care what they're doing anymore. That's why I haven't pursued their new ventures. DeMille can howl naked at the moon to his heart's content, as long as it's not in my living room. Unfortunately, George Wythe College landed in my living room.

Suggestion: DeMille or Brooks--and I know that you read this blog--if you want this blog deleted, encourage your old friends on the George Wythe Foundation board to publish an HONEST, FACT-BASED history on the school's website; and to repudiate the past life experience degrees (yes "Dr." Brooks, that may even include yours). You have the power to do this.

"You call yourself an active mormon, but frankly I’m not sure you could even be considered a half decent Christian."

Look in the mirror, brother. Who is the one engaging in personal attacks?

I stick with the facts. They trump personal attacks any day. If you don't like the facts, that's not my problem. If you think I can provide better context, I am very open to that. Suggest away.

Anonymous said...

I always enjoy reading TRGW’s answers to questions. It’s not the questions he chooses to answer that interest me, but rather the questions he leaves unanswered. Intriguing.

I think what Bob is trying to say is, “Any attempt to show only one side of an argument is propaganda.” By that definition, there’s no question this blog IS propaganda. The only mystery is your motive.

The Real George Wythe said...

Anon said: "I think what Bob is trying to say is, 'Any attempt to show only one side of an argument is propaganda.' By that definition, there’s no question this blog IS propaganda."

Look up the definition of "fallacious reasoning."

"It’s not the questions he chooses to answer that interest me, but rather the questions he leaves unanswered."

What unanswered question would you like answered?

Bob said...

Anon, thank you. Propoganda is indeed the perfect word. For someone who calls himself “TrustTruth” he certainly does take pleasure in only showing one very narrow side of it.

And TRGW… Personal Attacks? In what world is criticism of an “anonymous” blogger personal? You want personal attacks… come out of your dark closet and show your real face. Put your personal life on the line as have the people your blog targets. Publish your real bio including your detailed educational resume and allow the wolves to pick over it. Expose to the world your every business or financial decision and have people highlight and emphasize only your rare mistakes. Teach thousands of immensely satisfied students and mentees, and then have someone you’ve never even taught or mentored write an inflammatory blog about your credibility as a teacher. Sit by and allow others to openly mock you based on bio’s written by 3rd parties. Live your life with the understanding that when the world googles the phrase, “Is [your real name] a mormon,” they will be taken to a blog that attempts to tear you down from every possible angle, exposing every possible mistake you’ve ever made including several based merely on assumptions. And then… DO NOTHING… while the anonymous person who so venomously attacks you, openly calls himself your brother in the gospel on the very blog he uses to spit in your face. THAT WOULD BE PERSONAL.

Do Unto Others as You Would Have Done Unto You – That’s the spirit of Christianity.

Do Unto Others After They Have Done Unto You – That’s the spirit of Revenge.

Do Unto Others But Don’t Afford Them The Possibility to Do the Same Unto You – That’s the spirit of Your Blog.

So no, I’m not attacking you personally. How could I, I don’t know who you are. I’m simply exposing your monstrous double standard.

Frankly Brother, there’s no doubt your Christianity IS in question.

Bob said...

… And if at this point, you are wondering as to my identity, please know that I am merely one of the thousands of satisfied and eternally grateful students, but I apparently didn’t get the memo that the statesmanlike way to deal with you is just to ignore you.

The Real George Wythe said...

Bob, this blog is full of facts. George Wythe College gave out life experience degrees, which lent credibility to disturbing practices. Those have not been repudiated. The college misrepresented its own history, in print. And the George Wythe Foundation appears to have taken $150K from a single mother and reneged on its promise to repay.

These are not "rare mistakes"; they are facts that by some miracle have become public. Who knows how much else has gone on outside the public view.

There is a reason why the GW Foundation board moved Brooks, then DeMille and that other guy out. I don't know the reason. Was it because of this blog? I seriously doubt it. More likely, the board is privy to MUCH more than I am.

The mission of this blog is to cast light on the truth. Truth is a solid foundation to build one's life on. Deception and obfuscation make up a shoddy foundation that will ultimately destroy lives. Therefore, ask yourself, are you building or destroying lives by supporting what this school has done in the past? There is no question that this blog is about building--building good lives based on TRUTH.

I vehemently disagree that I am "showing one very narrow side of [the truth]." I will say it again: If you can suggest a better context to place these true facts, suggest away.

Felidae said...

Bob, I am a GWU student... and while I can sympathize with your motives, the wrongdoings of DeMille and Brooks are clearly supported by evidence. "Good intentions" are no defense for either of them. Moreover, the house of cards they keep erecting -- now that they are detached from GWU -- actually hurts the very cause they imagine themselves furthering. Ultimately, when it all implodes it will hurt a lot of innocent people.

That being said, TRGW, given that institutions don't actually commit acts -- people do -- it seems strange that you seem content to let the bandits get away while you keep chasing the car. Perhaps this is a ploy in hopes that DeMille and Brooks' degrees would be erased in the process? I can see how that would be an efficient tactic, which would explain why you never brought it up before now. Personally, I think rescinding all dubious degrees is a great idea. I suspect, however, that something like that will be required anyway as part of the formal accreditation process. Isn't that already obvious?

Anonymous said...

Bob Said:

"Live your life with the understanding that when the world googles the phrase, “Is [your real name] a mormon,” they will be taken to a blog that attempts to tear you down from every possible angle,"

The difference is that TRGW has not published many books, been a university president, represented himself as a Dr. of anything, led organizations that promote his views, etc. Oliver DeMille and Shanon Brooks have been in the public view, so they are probably not surprised that they have received criticism for their their views.

Regardless of this blog, TJED will stand on its own merits. In fact, I know an Ivy League educated PhD who is trying TJED with his own family, and I am certain he knows about this blog. The criticism I have heard from him have nothing to do with Oliver Demille's background or credentials. He sees TJED's weaknesses for what they are rather than for their source.

Personally I am pleased with the direction that GWU has taken with a focus on ethics, a reduction in shoddy sales tactics, and an emphasis on accreditation.

You also said:

"To be honest, the only reason I waste my time commenting here is because you are actually hurting real people and I’m not talking about the people you are attacking. Your negative blog has real negative consequences for people who’s lives you don’t even realize you are negatively impacting."

There are real people who have been hurt by GWU, and TRGW is shedding some light on that. TRGW mentioned the single mother who loaned the school 150k, the life experience degrees that have had real consequences in our legal system and in people's lives. I would add that TJED has had a very negative impact on families by setting kids back. Any educational approach that is not based on scientific evidence should not be adopted, just like any medical procedure that is not based on scientific evidence should not be adopted because of the real consequences.

DeMille and Brooks have attacked the entire educational system. They have called our system of schooling a "conveyor belt" and taught that our system does not promote questions. It is funny that Bob is trying to silence the criticism of those who ask questions.

The other fact that is fascinating is the extent to which GWU has promoted Glenn Beck and Glenn Beck has promoted GWU. He has attacked our president, his cabinet, and others. I know of people that Beck has attacked causing them to feel bad about themselves and their work. It seems odd that GWU posts Beck's picture for the world to see the 20k donation, yet Bob is so averse to criticism of GWU and the people there.

I would be willing to bet that DeMille and Brooks have thick enough skin to handle this blog. They are not school children complaining to the principal about playground bullies.

Bob said...

TRGW, why do your “facts” have so many holes?

You inaccurately claim that your blog is “the sole source on the internet for a factual history” of the school. Where is this so called “factual” history? I can’t find anything like that here. And if such a history exists, who wrote it? Is it a first person account? Someone who has been there from the beginning to now? Does such an authoritative person exist? Did you write it TRGW? How could you have, you’ve never been so much as a student and as you’ve admitted many times, your experience and inside information is very limited? By whose authority would such “facts” be verified? Yours? It all sounds very subjective and impalpable. OBFUSCATION

Also, I can’t seem to be able to find the “proof” that GWF “reneged” on any repayment promises. Last I checked, there was some worry and perhaps even a premature complaint, but nothing had yet been determined. Has a judgment or settlement been reached? How could it? It’s not yet 2011. ALLEGATIONS & INNUENDO

“Disturbing practices” ? Disturbing by whose standards? Isn’t this subjective? It’s hard to call something like “beauty” or “disturbing” a fact. CONJECTURE

“Howl naked at the moon.” PROPOGANDA

You (and a tiny handful of other arms-length TJED critics) stand alone. There seems to be this occasional vague 3rd person reference to “real people who have been harmed.” Where are these so-called victims? It is apparent that no one with any first hand knowledge or experience agrees with you.

Your so called “facts” all seem to be laced in half truths, wrapped in conspiracy theories and shrouded in personal opinion. No wonder you have a hard time editing wiki articles. You should probably stick with stuff you know because it’s very clear from your blog you don’t know much ‘bout GWU.

Jed and Kaydence said...

I have to say, I just heard about this blog last night and I've been reading it in my spare time ever since.

I was a student at GWC and graduated from there. I was also an employee there for a time and I can honestly say that this blog has only confirmed some things that I had been suspicious of.

The dishonesty, the lack of communication, the lack of continuity in the curriculum, and irresponsible financial practices have been the demise of GWC.

The people who are so passionate about defending GWC are perhaps confusing principles and personal experience with facts. I had a great personal experience there. I met my husband, I saw a new way of thinking that opened me up to a new life plan. But those were good personal changes that just happened to coincide with my time there. Perhaps some of you have learned some truly valuable things. Perhaps you've gained an insight that has given you a way to be your full self.

But that doesn't change the fact that these people are not being honest. Plan and simple. I saw it first hand. I used to tell people, "This place will never go anywhere because it's so shady in it's dealings." How true that has proven itself to be.

I remember in my final oral bringing up the lack of articulate students at GWC. I felt GWC had been claiming they were going to train leaders, but I was reading papers by some of these students who could not, literally, write a sentence (I was a student teacher for a short time as well). My professors disregarded my concerns and felt I was deflecting from my oral to take the pressure off myself.

They were always unwilling to admit their imperfections. Or maybe it wasn't so much that they were unwilling, so much as they were just blind to them. They had deluded themselves so much they just honestly didn't think they could make a mistake.

For those of you faithful GWC-ers, I understand you are defending the IDEA Of GWC, but this is the truth: The people who founded the school didn't know what they were doing. I'm not saying Dr DeMille isn't smart, it's obvious he is. I'm simply saying they had no idea how to run a school or a business. I could give you numerous examples but I don't have the time.

I find it disturbing that some of you are hitting so far below the belt as to attack each other's Christianity. That's just ridiculous. This isn't about religion. This is simply about bad business. I've read through many of these posts and I haven't found anything that equals an "attack". The information is clear. Let's leave religion out of it.

And for the person who said this blog "stands alone"... I can think of 10 students off the top of my head that I knew personally that left GWC unhappy with it's practices. If there's no one commenting here about being unhappy with the school, it's because they've all moved on with their lives. Like I have. I have no association with them and asked that my name be removed from their website. The only reason I'm saying anything now is because this website was just brought to my attention and I thought it was interesting.

I probably won't come again, but I just wanted to go on the record in support of full disclosure. If people are going to spend money on this school, they deserve the honest truth.

With all that being said, I wish the new generation of GWC the best. With Dr Schulthies in charge there is hope that this institution can be viable educationally and financially. I look forward to seeing where it goes after starting with a clean slate and competent people in charge.

CrouchingOwl said...

I've been curious. There have been comments from time to time that seem to say or infer that GWU has stopped doing TJED education. Or, that somehow that TJED and GWU aren't affiliated so criticizing TJED isn't relevant to the discussion of GWU. If the two really have drifted apart farther than whether DeMille gets a paycheck from the school I'd be intensely curious to know the details. Sure, there have been curriculum changes in which books are normal reading vs not and it sounds like requiring performance to get a good grade is taking a more equal place with inspiring the students with good motivational speaking. But I hadn't noticed any point where the school has "stopped" doing TJED. If they have or have made steps towards such a change, please, someone enlighten me. Saying that TJED had nothing to do with GWU anymore, which I think I noticed one commenter do (not sure, so many comments, so little time to treat them like a research project), seems almost like saying cheese and milk don't have anything to do with each other.

CrouchingOwl said...

Oh, and if the comments about GWU not doing TJED were in sarcasm, someone please feel free to point that out to me. Some seemed to be, some didn't seem to be.